tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11324278.post2228232298040701086..comments2024-03-13T19:19:04.945+02:00Comments on All Your Beis: Holidays and the TempleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11324278.post-21208950643438964082011-10-23T23:52:02.983+02:002011-10-23T23:52:02.983+02:00what did HQBH intend when He made pilgrimage festi...<i>what did HQBH intend when He made pilgrimage festivals that are to have a tenor of joy even when the pilgrimage is impossible?</i><br /><br />The idea of "You shall rejoice before God", also appears regarding Temple rituals unrelated to the holidays (i.e. Devarim 27:7). I suspect that the same idea, when appearing regarding holidays, is a consequence of our visiting the Temple, and has no further cause. Thus, simcha nowadays would be a sort of "lo plug". I think this can be read even into the source you are using for simcha:<br />שבעת ימים, תחג לה' אלקיך, במקום, אשר-יבחר ה': כי יברכך ה' אלקיך, בכל תבואתך ובכל מעשה ידיך, והיית, אך שמח.<br />Which can be interpreted roughly as follows: "Seven days you shall do the pilgrimage, because God blessed your produce, and [on that pilgrimage] you shall rejoice." It does not mention simcha separate from the pilgrimage.<br /><br /><i>how were we permitted to forget the harvest / gratitude nature of the period?</i><br /><br />The Omer may be a period in which people are naturally happy about their harvest (though in contrast, it may be a period in which they were anxious about losing their entire harvest to bad weather, see Shmuel Alef 12:17-19). And happy times are naturally good times to be grateful to God. But the Torah does not specify any Omer observances on an individual level which have anything to do with "simcha". This is in contrast to shalosh regalim, where the pilgrimage and rejoicing apply to each individual. So it's not clear that we as individuals are missing anything in our Omer observance. Yes, the historical basis for the Omer has been forgotten, but why should that matter in practice? The "theme" of the Omer is irrelevant (we today aren't farmers and have nothing special to rejoice over), and so are the technicalities (the Omer has no halachic implications except counting and sacrifices), so it seems to me nothing is left.<br /><br /><i>I thought we have an obligation of simchah on RH & YK.</i><br /><br />You're right (at least regarding RH), but the obligation is certainly less than on shalosh regalim, and not explicit in the pesukim anywhere. And I think it fits to say that this level of obligation too is caused by the special Temple observances. The level of simcha is lower than on shalosh regalim because the level of personal involvement in the Temple service is less (we don't do melacha and on YK don't eat, but unlike shalosh regalim we don't visit the Temple).<br /><br />I hope all this is coherent, it's late at night.Beisrunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091613751643079470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11324278.post-20907444845160204622011-10-23T16:07:20.074+02:002011-10-23T16:07:20.074+02:00I didn't intend to answer your question by inv...I didn't intend to answer your question by invoking the pasuq, because you're operating on a different level. Halachic source on a legal plane is a different issue than asking what lessons we can take from the mitzvah.<br /><br />Given the pasuq, the question you're asking would become one about the chiyuv deOraisa itself: what did HQBH intend when He made pilgrimage festivals that are to have a tenor of joy even when the pilgrimage is impossible?<br /><br />Rather, my focus was on my 2nd paragraph. Your post would justify keeping omer as a period of joy too. Or, in light of your recent comment -- how were we permitted to forget the harvest / gratitude nature of the period? Why isn't there a similar obligation as the holidays share?<br /><br />Tangent:<br />I thought we have an obligation of simchah on RH & YK. Hallel isn't said because the aura of yir'ah makes such an expression of the joy inappropriate, not because there isn't any. C.f. Yad, Hil' Chanukah 3:6 and Hil' Yom Tov 6:17-18 (where these are only 2 yamim tovim left to be included in "she'ar yamim tovim").michahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15903747662338530294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11324278.post-47632500671953777992011-10-19T15:11:24.465+02:002011-10-19T15:11:24.465+02:00Interesting theory - I totally forgot about the mi...Interesting theory - I totally forgot about the mitzvah of simcha, which is unforgivable in this context.<br /><br />But I also had in mind RH, YK, Rosh Chodesh which do not have the mitzvah of simcha, certainly not to the same degree. So I'm not sure your answer suffices.<br /><br />I think the agricultural heritage of the Omer was simply forgotten (and never imparted much of a ritual character to the days to begin with), while later events such as the Crusades conspired to make it a time of mourning.Beisrunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12091613751643079470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11324278.post-89054410062875766532011-10-19T15:05:08.079+02:002011-10-19T15:05:08.079+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.michahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15903747662338530294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11324278.post-33386432412190070402011-10-19T14:55:49.876+02:002011-10-19T14:55:49.876+02:00Actually, I think that had the Torah not explicitl...Actually, I think that had the Torah not explicitly required an aura of unadulterated happiness (loosely translating "veyahisa akh sameiach") they probably would have become days of sadness.<br /><br />Look at what happened to the omer period. They too were once days of joy and a special offering thanking Hashem for our spring grain crops. I am not sure how your argument fails for this counterexample, but it must in order to be valid.michahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15903747662338530294noreply@blogger.com